Q: When Jesus broke the Shabbat in Matthew 12, his logic is like the speedy driver in this parable.
A man was on his way to watch a football game at his friend’s house. Eager to arrive, he found himself doing 60 mph in a 35 mph zone. Shortly, a police officer pulled him over.“Do you realize that you were speeding?” the police officer asked. Incensed the man began railing at the officer:
“Have you not heard how a husband sometimes rushes his pregnant wife as she goes into labor? Or are you so ignorant that you do not know that a fire truck breaks the speed limit and its driver receives no ticket? I tell you that I am greater than the fire chief! But if you had known that a warning is preferable to a ticket, you would not have harassed an innocent man. For I am lord of the roads!”
As the man was arrested, one could hear him shouting: “Speed limits were made for man, not man for speed limits!”
Shalom, You compared Yeshua to the speeder who violated the traffic law, but I see it differently. Please look carefully how the text says; it was His disciples who broke the law, not Yeshua! Matthew 12:1-8 “At that time Yeshua went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. HIS DISCIPLES were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! YOUR DISCIPLES are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath…. ”
The text says the disciples were the speeder. Also, it was not Yeshua who was condemned by the Pharisees but the disciples were criticized! Yeshua never said “i didn’t break the law,” or “my disciples didn’t break the law.” Yeshua simply said that David and his men did something unlawful, and the priests can work on Sabbath in the temple without breaking the law. In my opinion, Yeshua seems to admit that His disciples broke the Sabbath law. Then, why He defends His disciples with these two biblical narratives? My friend, the Gospels is as profound as the Tanakh. We must think hard prayerfully to grasp the message. We will be surprised to see how mysteriously Hashem governed the accidents of the Jewish people to connect with the events of the Messiah.
According to Samuel 21, the priest Ahimelech gave David the bread of the Presence which was just replaced by hot bread on the Sabbath day and allowed them to eat it, So David and his men ate it. LIkewise, Yeshua allowed his disciples to eat it on the Sabbath day. Now, read carefully; the priest Ahimelech did not give the bread right away without considering the law of Leviticus 24:5-9. He said something conditoinally, “… provided the men have kept themselves from women…”(1 Sam.21:4). What in the world this idea came from? I don’t see such things in the Law! Ahimelech made it up? The Satan put his words into the mouth of the priest? NO. He must have received the “unique divine revelation” about the priestly consumption of the consecrated bread. I want to call it “progressive revelation.” THREE TIMES, the Word of God emphasizes in “1 Samuel 22:10, 13, 15” that the priest Ahimelech INQUIRED OF THE LORD for David. It means that the priest asked about this complex situation, and the Lord who is the Lord of the Law revealed HIS heart to the priest so that he would give the bread to David! We see a same situation in Numbers 9:8 when Moses asked the Lord about the unexpected situation when people couldn’t keep the passover at the 14th day of the first month, the Lord gave them extra “make-up” day. OUR God is a REASONABLE God! Don’t confine HIS love, authority, and freedom to work for His beloved ones to the technicalities of the letters of the law!
The Gospel of Matthew portrays Yeshua as the priest Ahimelech who asked and received the direct revelation from Hashem to allow eating on that day. Later, in 1Samuel 22, the priest Ahimelech got killed by Doeg the Edomite. What is significance of this? Look, Saul and his men represent Jews- the first born son of God- the first ordained king, and David and his men represent- the younger brother- church- secondly ordained king. Interestingly, just as the priest got killed by Edomite’s hand not by Saul’s hands, Yeshua was killed by Edomites-gentiles-Roman soldiers, not by Jews (Saul). Then, who is responsible for the death of the priest Ahimelech? Saul or Doeg? David says in 1 Sam.22:22, “That day, when Doeg the Edomite was there, I knew he would be sure to tell Saul. I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR the death of your father’s whole family.”(v.22)
David is reponsible for the death of the priest. Who is David representing? First, speaking of the flesh, David represents today’s Jewish people, the descendants under the line of Judah (Or you may include the descendants of Benjamin, the Saul’s tribe). Secondly, speaking of the spirit, David symbolizes the Disciples- Christians- the church. The righteous Priest Yeshua died for both Jews and Christians when we were still sinners in breaking the Law of God. On the Sabbath day 2000 years ago, Yeshua worked in the grainfield temple to mediate between Hashem and us without breaking the law. He did not rest for our sake and later paid our penalties and rose again from the dead to justify us.
“For Zion’s sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.”—- Isaiah 62:1
Q: Gean Guk Geon,
You could make anything like this up and see “deep insight” into the drivel of anyone you choose to deify – there is no limit to the stretch of human imagination. It helps however to have a little knowledge of Torah Law before you start speculating – Leviticus 15:18 and 22:3 would have given you less room to imagine.
Language is only useful insofar that people understand it – The words of Jesus are understood by countless people to read just as the words of the speeder in our parable and they were understood this way by the people he was talking to – if it takes 2000 years for someone to cook up an explanation – then its not language – its desperation
we don’t know the motives of david in 1 sam 21 for taking the bread , but motives of jesus are clear.
- What do you think David’s motive of asking for something to eat in his running away for days? i think even secular people could read the text and answer. Do you think Yeshua led His disciples into the grainfield in order to teach and practice “breaking of the law?” Even secular people could read the text and see that the disciples acted recklessly and their teacher defended them because they were condemned.
“Do you think Yeshua led His disciples into the grainfield in order to teach and practice “breaking of the law?” Even secular people could read the text and see that the disciples acted recklessly and their teacher defended them because they were condemned.”
Q: Gean Guk Jeon,
- “If human rest means stop doing and making stuff, then, the divine rest is stop blessing and being quiet? NO. ”
the divine command according to the bible is:
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
so God built the 7th day and blessed it.
the writer of mark writing later does not seem to pick up on this and has degraded the command.
“sabbath is made for man not man for sabbath…”
“The divine rest is STILL “blessing and sanctifying.- Gen.2:3” The Sabbath day rule has two meaning. Not doing work as the Mosaic Law teaches & Doing blessing and sanctifying work as God did. ”
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
i don’t know what you are saying. are you saying that god as a human being is not doing work but at the same time blessing the work of his disciples on sabbath day?
Q: Gean Guk Jeon,
You are right to note that it was Jesus’ disciples that broke the law. On the other hand, one must wonder why their teacher stands there allowing them to break the law. However, when I wrote the parable, I was more concerned with the arguments Jesus makes rather than who was ‘driving the car’. The point is to examine the arguments and see if they make any sense. And they do not.
You say that Jesus is not attempting to defend his disciples. On this I must say that you are quite mistaken. If he were not defending his disciples, the whole speech would make even less sense than it does. He could have just accepted the chastisement without castigating the Pharisees and certainly without the circumlocution upon which he embarks. Moreover, he tells the Pharisees that if they understood that God desires mercy and not sacrifice, they would not have condemned the guiltless. He is clearly excusing his disciples violation of the Sabbath.
The arguments he makes to justify his disciples, as reflected in the parable, are illegitimate. First, he compares their situation to the emergency situation in which David found himself, but the disciples are not in an emergency. Then he compares the violation with the Sabbath to the duties of the priests that would under other circumstances violate the Sabbath, but the disciples are not fulfilling a Torah obligation in violating the Sabbath. In fact, when he says that the “priests in the temple violate the Sabbath,” he is incorrect, and his argument is absurd. After this he attacks the Pharisees for condemning the guiltless. And he concludes by declaring himself Lord of the Sabbath. Each of these arguments is troubling, as reflected in my parable.
The problem one has when reading the NT is that the NT already sets up Jesus as a noble soul. When Jesus makes grandiose statements people tolerate them, because they have already come to accept that Jesus has a right to say them. However, let them hear these same words come out of the mouth of another, and they would be horrified. They would not testify that such a man is a noble soul. They might think him insane. They might think him evil. But they would not think him a prophet, messiah, or divine.
i am sorry for the confusing, when i said “then why He defends His disciples with these two biblical narratives?” i meant He defended His disciples. If you are saying “Emergency” or “other circumstances” you may seem to be adding to the Torah. And let us be clear: Pharisees attacked and Yeshua defended. not vice versa.
Q: Gean Guk Jeon,
Thank you for your response.
- I need some time to reply to all of this, but I just want to say something quickly. Why do you believe in God? Psalms 14 says there is no God. See verse one. It says, clear as clear, “There is no God”! What could be plainer than that?
- Now tell me, what is wrong with what I just did? And then perhaps you can see what you did that is just as wrong.
You are right, sister, and i think ‘the fool'(v.1) and ‘sons of men'(v.2) makes “all (ha col)… together (Yahedu)”(v.3)? In verse 5 says not “there are righteous people by action worthy of salvation” rather they are saved and righteous because of The Presence and of the Lord with them and being refuge for them. How come? In what way? verse 7 answers that.
Exodus 33.”He said: “I will let all My goodness pass before you; I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you, and I will favor when I wish to favor, and I will have compassion when I wish to have compassion”.
I wonder, which is the correct reading of 33:19? Is it Who i wish to favor or When I wish to favor ?? Who would match Paul in the NT. It changes the whole meaning.
Really, though, who says the salvation is a spiritual salvation? Salvation in the Torah refers to political salvation, salvation from oppression, persecution, and the like.
The concept of God saving us from our own sins without us having to do a thing about it does not exist anywhere in Tanach.
Amen! NT says same thing! The concept has not changed! Salvation is to be with God eternally from the seperation by sin, to inherit the eternal kingdom of God that is Jerusalem, and to become His children forever
I do not think you understood what I said at all.
Jerusalem.., i meant the city where i am living now in Israel. Salvation from slavery, persecution, death, disease, oppression from wicked government are partially realized and fulfilled by the people of God and will ultimately fully fulfilled by Messiah’s coming. He will establish the righteous and holy city of God on earth, thus restore the garden of Eden. This is how i understand from both OT and NT.
““The salvation of God is not governed by our action; rather He saves and heals whomever He chooses to be with.” So how does God make that choice? Is it made before you are born? If so, then what criteria is used to condemn a person who God chose not to enlighten and “be with” before their birth?
Brother, thank you for the comment and forgive me for the late response. please read Exodus 33:19 and Romans 9:19-29. I believe that will answer to you
Exodus 33:19 In context: 18Then Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” 19And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” 20But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”…
This doesn’t help your argument for Calvinism, predestination or for Jesus as God for that matter. But if it does, there is no reason for you to even be posting here, since God has already made his decision about every single person before they were even born. You say our choices make no difference because our choices are not even our choices. The evil man was created to be evil and the good man was created to be good. You believe those who “reject christ” were predestined to do so. In your thinking , it is God’s will that the vast majority of humanity “reject christ”. You would only have to post once, proclaiming the 2nd person of the trinity and the third person of the trinity would take over from there with “irresistible grace” to those predestined to accept your religion. No further discussion would be needed.
Your continual posting on these boards is evidence that you do not even believe that argument yourself. Remember, Jesus said ( paraphrase), “tell them, and if they do not accept it, shake the dust from your sandals.” He did not say, ” Keep debating them until they see it your way”.
As for your Pauline verse from Romans, it is irrelevant.
I think that the calvinistic god is an awful god, but most ignore the fact that many non-testament verses teaches exactly that! You can’t barely make it more clear than “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. “, but like most christians, they try to rationalise, because the god of the non-testament is a cruel god who enjoy sending people to hell, just for his own pleasure of showing his own wrath!
I don’t care what theologians say, but i do care what the Bible says. Why the nation Israel was chosen among nations? Because He loved and chose them! (Deuteronomy 7:6-9) What i wanted to say is not that we can do whatever we want to do because salvatoin is gained already. The NT also refutes that mentality- Philippians 2:12 says, “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” What i meant was that Salvation of God is not GOVERNED by our action. When the saved people of God stand before Him in the last day, they will know and worship Him because their faith, their works, their righteousness, and their fruits all came from gifts from God. So the Hesed love in His covenant is what saves us. In terms of salvation, God takes all the soverignty- 1 Samuel 17:47, Psalm 3:8, Revelations 7:10
I also think that the calvinistic god is an awful god. I think the God of Israel, the God of the Bible is an awsome God whose love is infinite!
Q: Gene Buk Geon
“What i meant was that Salvation of God is not GOVERNED by our action”
Dina dealt with that when she joined the conversation. Your response “But, if the salvation of God is governed by our action and by what we have accomplished by obeying it, then… so many Jews and Chrisitans in the Old and New covenant may lose the salvation because they sometimes fail to observe it.” You continue, “I don’t mean we can ignore the law; rather we should strive to keep it, to keep the spirit and heart of God manifested in the Law; however, our keeping the law cannot be the basis of our salvation.” First you say, we cannot ignore the law, Then you say we can, just by keeping the spirit of the law, followed by keeping the law cannot be the basis for our salvation, translation, it’s not that important. By the way Gene, what part of the law do you keep?
I honor and listen and try to keep all the commandments not to be saved but because i am saved. When i find myself failing to observe all those (613?) commandments, i realize i am a sinner who needs mercy of God. i believe i am saved by what God has done in the history of Israel and in the life, death, and resurrection of Yeshua.