Why worshipping Yeshua?

Jewish brother:

Gean wants us to believe that God’s word = God in some way so that we can worship God’s word (=Jesus).

The only “proof” he can contrive is that the verb BARA is not used anywhere in Tanakh in reference to God’s word. Gean’s logic is as follows: BARA means creating something from nothing and since BARA isn’t used to describe how the Torah was made (in Proverbs 8) in contrast to the rest of creation where BARA is used, it means that the Torah (God’s word) has always existed. Therefore, we can worship God’s word because it has always existed like God Himself and is therefore equivalent to God for the purpose of worship.

Gean, first of all, you are admitting that the Torah is God’s word. So why don’t you worship the Torah? Would it be ok to worship the Torah? Did Jews ever worship the Torah? Did Moses worship the Torah? Did King David and King Solomon worship the Torah?

But the most important thing to know, Gean, is that there really is no such thing as Hashem creating something from nothing. Because Hashem is infinite, there is nothing apart or separate from Him – He includes everything. The different Hebrew verbs that mean to make and to form – BARA, YATZAR, ASAH, HOLAL – are all METAPHORS meant for the HUMAN PERSPECTIVE only. From Hashem’s perspective nothing comes from nothing and everything is equally open and revealed – darkness to Him is as bright as light (Psalms 139:12 – Even the darkness is not too dark for you
but the night shines as the day; the darkness is even as the light.)

These different verbs are used to describe different levels of hiddenness of Hashem’s hand/presence in any given object/concept/phenomenon from our perspective. So if we say that something comes from nothing – it doesn’t literally mean from nothing because it comes from Hashem Who is the REAL SOMETHING. It’s AS IF it came from nothing because Hashem’s presence is extremely hidden in these things in the sense that THEY APPEAR TO RUN BY THEMSELVES. Besides, the essential meaning of the word BARA is “outside” – it means to bring what was inside to the outside. So by Hashem saying that He BARA (created) the heaven and the earth (Genesis 2:4), it means that what was “inside” Hashem’s mind, He brought it “outside”. But there really is nothing outside of Hashem – not even the Satan and idols – even though from the human perspective THEY APPEAR to be outside of Hashem.

So, Gean, everything comes from Something. Nothing comes from nothing. Rocks don’t literally come from nothing, they come from Something too. The heavens don’t literally come from nothing. They also come from Something. It’s just that it’s much harder for us to connect to Hashem through studying the heavens and earth than it is for us to connect to Him through studying and fulfilling His word.

Let’s use a human as an analogy. It is much harder for us to connect to someone’s personality and soul if the person lacks the ability to speak. Sure we can see his facial expressions and his actions but because he can’t speak, it is very hard for us to get to know him. But through his words, it’s much easier for us to relate to him. But still the person’s words ARE NOT HIM. They can express a very deep part of him, but they can’t express all of him. So much of the person is still hidden and is unable to be expressed in any words.

A person is much more than his spoken or written words. We might love a person’s words, but it would be insane to try to carry on a relationship with his words. We only want a relationship with the person himself. Likewise, we can love God’s words, but it would be a sign of insanity to try to have a relationship with His words. We only want a relationship with the ONE Who spoke those words. As it is true of a human being, Hashem is also infinitely more than His words and can never fully express Himself in any words. We therefore need something else, something even greater than words, to take our relationship with Hashem and with our fellow humans to the next level.

Everything comes from Hashem – even His words. But let’s have a mutual relationship with Hashem and not with His words. To have a worshipful relationship with anything besides Hashem Himself is a sign of insanity.

Gean Guk Jeon:

Brother, i appreciate your thoughtful and intellectual articles. If i gave you an impression that i worship Yeshua rather than God, or Word rather than Hashem Himself, sorry that is not what i meant.

1. I dont bow down to the Bible nor work for the ink but bow down Hashem whose glory and power and amazing works revealed in the Word and i work for Hashem who gave the job description through the Word.

2. If the word of God become everything, why Isaiah 55:10~11 do not say like this; “As the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return to it but become water, earth, and bud ans seed… So is my word that goes out from my mouth and become everything without returning to me. ”

3. All you said about Hashem are words. Your concept of God is made of words. You pray to God through words. Is God wind? Picture? Man? Force? Visible star? Fire? Or mountain? No. I believe that as soon as you believe and meditate on all about Hashem, even in your quiet time of worshipping Hashem, you meet Him through the small voice or words from Him. The Nature SPEAKS the glory of Hashem, our experience SPEAKS to hear the voice of Hashem. When i hear His voice, i cannot help worshipping Hashem. Even in His silence, His silence speaks message.

Jewish Brother:

Gean,
You told me that you worship both together. You worship the Father AND the Son TOGETHER.

  • Yes but 98% Father. Even in time of worshipping Son, I worship Father who gave His Son for me. I worship Father, then He receives it and He shows me He often shares the glory with His Son = Israel and Yeshua.

    Jewish brother says:

     

    “He often shares the glory with His Son = Israel and Yeshua.”

    Then what is wrong with you worshiping any Jew or the entire Jewish people?
    If you think you are Israel since the “brit chadashah” what is wrong with you worshiping yourself?

    Isaiah 6:3 –
    And one called unto another, and said: Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory.”

    The whole earth is full of His glory – He gave His glory to the entire earth. What is wrong with worshiping the earth?

    Jewish brother:

    Gean,

    If an object is worthy of your worship because it shares God’s “glory” then there are plenty of things that have God’s glory and so you must also worship them.

    If an object is worthy of your worship because it it “God’s word” then there are plenty of things that have God’s word and so you must worship them too; for example, a Torah scroll, a NT (according to you), Avraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, and all the prophets, your computer screen when you look at God’s words to name a few.

    Alan, this debate is won by you and i’m lost. I will worship God only who is Abba Shelanu Adonai Echad. This will be the last question because we need to participate in another great articles of Rabbi.

    You said, “what is wrong with you worshiping any Jew or the entire Jewish people?”
    I do because God said So! Genesis 27:29 “Nations shall SERVE you and kingdoms shall bow down to you; you shall be a master over your brothers, and your mother’s sons shall bow down to you. Those who curse you shall be cursed, and those who bless you shall be blessed.” (www.chabad.org) In this verse, SERVE is what? ABAD! The same word which is used in Deuteronomy 11:16 “Beware, lest your heart be misled, and you turn away and WORSHIP strange gods and prostrate yourselves before them.”

    Actually, i really worshiped (Abbadti: Worked, loved, and served) Jews when i was in Israel. When i was in LA, i wanted to serve (worship) the Jews not because they are greater than gentiles but because God said so and becasue Yeshua was from the Jews, and Yeshua said to the gentile Samaritan woman “salvation comes from the Jews” (John 4:22)

    Jewish brother:
    “Yes but 98% Father. ”

    Does it say in Tanakh or NT that worshiping the son 2% of the time is kosher? What if a person wants to do more than 2%? Is it permitted to do 5% or 10%? What if someone wants to do 50%?

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14 thoughts on “Why worshipping Yeshua?

  1. quote :
    . Why God has called Abraham and made him as a channel of blessing; “all the families of the earth shall be blessed in you.”
    end quote

    where god said in bible that one needs to pray through abraham before god answer them ?
    where does hb say that one need to put heart and soul in abraham when one is turning to god and seeking his answer?

    “Could not God have blessed directly?”

    god is blessing directly since he is the one creating the generations which respect abraham and remember him, but what has this got to do with using abraham as an INTERMEDIARY before one sincerely call to god?

    ” At Mount Sinai, why God called Moses to give the law while he could have given directly?”

    why god used the sun to give light when he could have given it directly?
    what has this got to do with when one is DIRECTLY SPEAKING/SEEKING GOD?

    didn’t the law say to DIRECTLY SEEK GOD AND NO OTHER?

    ” Why people feared to hear the voice of God directly, rather they wished to hear through Moses?”

    But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

    20Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

    but i thought they heard god anyway ?
    moses said do not be afraid. so he reassures them not to worry.


    Although God was the kIng of Israel in times of Samuel, Israelites sinned by asking for a king, right? Abal, Lama, God gave them a king Saul?
    If we do not need a “medium”- the word of God and “mediator”- Moshiach- prophet, king, and priest, How can we approach INVISIBLE and SILENT GOD?”

    god sees and hears . the whole point for god to remain hidden and unseen is to test if you TRUST that he hears and listens or do you TRUST people you can see like gods, snakes, idols etc

    god is testing you. he wants to see if you love him , will you call to him directly or to IDOLS like jesus /yeshua .

    Liked by 1 person

  2. “How can we approach INVISIBLE and SILENT GOD”

    because he SEES AND HEARS AND KNOWS YOU BETTER THAN YOU know yourself. yeshua does not know the hour

    “no one knows the hour, except the father ALONE”

    why do you trust in “word” which is IGNORANT?

    yeshua didn’t even know WHEN christians will be PERSECUTED

    “Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.”

    your “word” does not even know when THEY WILL FLEE. he tells them to PRAY that their FLIGHT does not LAND on EITHER SABBATH /winter

    if he KNEW exactly when they SHOULD FLEE, he would say “you will flee in SUMMER”

    he didn’t know.

    why are you trusting in IGNORANT human being who did not KNOW ?
    how will you speak and love god, when you love his “word” MORE than him?

    if GOD SEES AND HEARS AND KNOWS EVERYTHING, THEN TURN TO GOD. not to ignorant human beings like jesus.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. “Yes but 98% Father. Even in time of worshipping Son, I worship Father who gave His Son for me. I worship Father, then He receives it and He shows me He often shares the glory with His Son = Israel and Yeshua.”

    god gave 2% of himself to you? your god is very selfish. he keep 98% of himself in heaven and he just want your to be POLYTHEIST and have relationship with human “word” ?
    why you worship god like this?

    your god is an idolater? he mix his glory with CREATION ?

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  4. quote :
    If we do not need a “medium”- the word of God and “mediator”- Moshiach- prophet, king, and priest, How can we approach INVISIBLE and SILENT GOD?”

    INVISIBLE AND SILENT

    THE WHOLE POINT IS ONE TRUST IN INVISIBLE AND SILENT GOD.
    in his law he says to TURN TO him by CALLING TO HIM, not humans who are ignorant and weak and powerless.

    your argument allow you to call to the big giant ball of light called the sun

    if you are a POLYTHIEST, you will say that the sun gives HEAT AND LIGHT and it FEEDS YOUR FOOD

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_aqa_pre_2011/plants/plants1.shtml

    so idolater will say EXACTLY like you, they will say because NO ONE CAN SEE AND HEAR GOD, then it is BETTER TO CALL TO THE sun which they can SEE AND HEAR.

    they will say, why god did not give light and USE light from the sun?

    you see, they will make you TRUST WHAT you can see and FEEL , not on GOD.

    Like

    1. Brother heathcliff!
      Thank you for the comments.

      “In his law he says to turn to him by calling to Him”
      You mean that God has taught you how to turn to Him through the Law
      Or instinctly you were able to know there is God whom you can call and turn to?

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      1. brother gene, do you worship the ten commandments? they are WORDS from the “mind” of god and these words are guidance from god. so do you WORSHIP ten commandments?
        if not, why not? the ten COMMANDMENTS ARE ETERNAL FROM THE MIND OF GOD.
        and god SPOKE THIS guidance, moses heard him.

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        1. “the ten COMMANDMENTS ARE ETERNAL FROM THE MIND OF GOD.
          and god SPOKE THIS guidance, moses heard him.”

          Amen brother Tony! Thank you for visiting and commenting on this blog.
          I do worship the ten commandments. Wait a minute. i don’t bow down to it, nor sing and dance in front of it to please the ten commandments on my open Bible. Listen, brother. Worship means OBED in Hebrew which means ” work ” or obey ; ABODA – work in noun. IF you obey the ten commandments and keep it in your life, you worship the ten commandment. Isn’t it interesting the English word OBEY is simliar to OBED in Hebrew?

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  5. brother gene, did moses hear god speak the 10 commandments ? are the 10 commandments the eternal WORDS of god ? if god SPOKE the words, then god spoke ETERNAL words. this means that idolatrous christians worship TWO words

    they worship torah
    and they worship logos.

    so god is heard SAYING words which are ETERNAL because they come from the “mind” of god
    and then we have INCARNATION of “logos” which is FLESH of god.

    this is blasphemous. gods produces SOUNDS and flesh from his mouth.

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    1. God produced sound- the eternal word of God from His mouth.
      God did not produce the flesh.
      the eternal word of God became flesh.
      Look carefully how the gospel of John says, “The logos- word- became flesh” (Jn 1:14)

      The Logos- the wisdom of God, the word of God, the power of God… has ability to become flesh.
      Actually, the history of Israel itself is the fullfillment of the prophetic word of God spoken by the prophet.
      When God said “you will bear a son next year”, Abraham bore a son. This is the fulfillment or incarnation of the word of God. That’s why Yeshua said, i came to FULFILL the Torah and the Prophets.

      Remember my brother, the New Testament nevery say “Yeshua is God.” Instead, Yeshua is the image of God, power of God, wisdom of God, logos of God, mystery of God, Christ of God, son of God (acutually firstborn like Israel). ..

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      1. “God produced sound- the eternal word of God from His mouth.
        God did not produce the flesh.
        the eternal word of God became flesh.
        Look carefully how the gospel of John says, “The logos- word- became flesh” (Jn 1:14)”

        so you have god SPEAKING words and those words BECOME flesh. this means god PRODUCES eternal words and those eternal words become flesh.

        so we have ETERNAL words which are UNCREATED and CREATED words which are created flesh.

        “The Logos- the wisdom of God, the word of God, the power of God… has ability to become flesh.
        Actually, the history of Israel itself is the fullfillment of the prophetic word of God spoken by the prophet.
        When God said “you will bear a son next year”, Abraham bore a son. This is the fulfillment or incarnation of the word of God. That’s why Yeshua said, i came to FULFILL the Torah and the Prophets.”

        okay brother, so you are saying that SOMETHING in god which is BEGININGLESS (no start , no end) , something UNCREATED, something INVISIBLE , changes and becomes visible and created.

        why you do not worship flesh ? if ETERNAL wisdom CAN change to flesh, if POWER can change to flesh, why you do not worship it? if eternal wisdom become flesh which does not eat, drink and rest, why don’t you worship flesh?

        god have TWO words:

        one word is ten COMMANDMENTS
        AND other is CREATED flesh.

        you said :

        i don’t bow down to it, nor sing and dance in front of it to please the ten commandments on my open Bible.

        ////

        why don’t you bow down and worship ten commandments like you do god? the WORDS are ETERNAL and they are FROM god, so why don’t you worship ten commandments? when you READ ten, moses HEARD god SAY ten commandments, this means moses hear ETERNAL words…..why christian does not WORSHIP eternal words/speech/talking of god?

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      2. “God produced sound- the eternal word of God from His mouth.
        God did not produce the flesh.
        the eternal word of God became flesh.”

        are you saying god produces SOUNDS from his mouth and then those SOUNDS have the power to BECOME created ?

        so i say , “hello” this word “hello” takes a LIFE of its own and becomes flesh ?

        so i will explain

        god said “do not have OTHER gods before me”

        then these words “do not have other gods before me” BECOME yeshua .

        now the COMMAND “do not have other gods before me” have BECOME created /body/flesh. this means they are no longer ETERNAL but CREATED commands. this is blasphemy, now you make gods ETERNAL words into CREATED words .

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